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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2010, 09:29
tabberone's Avatar
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Default Re: Pattern copyright laws, just FYI

[QUOTE=rachie2531;567875]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
[I
[/I]
I can do case result searches on copyright lawsuits all day long but when it comes down to it, every court rules diffrently in diffrent situations so I just take things as they come and leave the final decision to a professional.

This is my way of thinking and the only reason I suggested everyone should take their questions to a trusted lawyer.
Your first statement simply is not true. Courts go out of their way to cite past cases in their opinions and how their decision does, or does not, follow those cases. If a case does not follow precedent that court must justify its decision. Precedent is very important to the courts. Without precedent we would have chaos in the courts. Judges do not like being overturned by a higher court so they are very careful in their citations.

By your logic, the Miranda decision would have been overturned years ago by a lower court but it is still there. 90% of cases never go to trial because lawyers know the futility of fighting what numerous courts have already settled many times.

We have encountered more than one misinformed lawyer who tried to state that the first sale doctrine is copyright law only and does not apply to trademarked goods. They are practicing idiots. I can show you a number of federal court cases where the judges have flatly stated the first sale doctrine does apply to trademarks.

When we were sued by M&M/Mars in 2002, every lawyer we contacted told us we had no case. We fought back and M&M/Mars dropped the lawsuit.

We do not just look for cases that just support our views as you seem to insinuate.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2010, 11:16
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Default Re: Pattern copyright laws, just FYI

[QUOTE=tabberone;568282]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rachie2531 View Post

Your first statement simply is not true. Courts go out of their way to cite past cases in their opinions and how their decision does, or does not, follow those cases. If a case does not follow precedent that court must justify its decision. Precedent is very important to the courts. Without precedent we would have chaos in the courts. Judges do not like being overturned by a higher court so they are very careful in their citations.

By your logic, the Miranda decision would have been overturned years ago by a lower court but it is still there. 90% of cases never go to trial because lawyers know the futility of fighting what numerous courts have already settled many times.

We have encountered more than one misinformed lawyer who tried to state that the first sale doctrine is copyright law only and does not apply to trademarked goods. They are practicing idiots. I can show you a number of federal court cases where the judges have flatly stated the first sale doctrine does apply to trademarks.

When we were sued by M&M/Mars in 2002, every lawyer we contacted told us we had no case. We fought back and M&M/Mars dropped the lawsuit.

We do not just look for cases that just support our views as you seem to insinuate.
My statement was directed more for the questions here on this forum and was directed to someones statement telling someone they could not make bottlecap images from something but not really backing it up with anything. I was more or less trying to say, for anyone wondering, that they should do their own research and consult a lawyer and make their own decision and not let some of these small businesses and individuals run them out of business. I think you took my statement as directed toward you and that wasnt the case. I was directing it toward someone that was trying to tell someone else they could not resell images they had bought where the seller had stated not to resell anything made with their images. I read up on a lot online and do my own research but if I had a really important matter, for example, someone sending me a cease and desist or, a forum member who has no real background in law telling me I cant resell something made from products I had bought, I would go with speaking to my lawyer. This is what I meant. I know its easy to sound general when typing so I hope this time I was more clear as to what I was responding to. Sorry for any confusion...
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2010, 11:22
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Default Re: Pattern copyright laws, just FYI

[QUOTE=tabberone;568282]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rachie2531 View Post

Your first statement simply is not true. Courts go out of their way to cite past cases in their opinions and how their decision does, or does not, follow those cases. If a case does not follow precedent that court must justify its decision. Precedent is very important to the courts. Without precedent we would have chaos in the courts. Judges do not like being overturned by a higher court so they are very careful in their citations.

By your logic, the Miranda decision would have been overturned years ago by a lower court but it is still there. 90% of cases never go to trial because lawyers know the futility of fighting what numerous courts have already settled many times.

We have encountered more than one misinformed lawyer who tried to state that the first sale doctrine is copyright law only and does not apply to trademarked goods. They are practicing idiots. I can show you a number of federal court cases where the judges have flatly stated the first sale doctrine does apply to trademarks.

When we were sued by M&M/Mars in 2002, every lawyer we contacted told us we had no case. We fought back and M&M/Mars dropped the lawsuit.

We do not just look for cases that just support our views as you seem to insinuate.
BTW, I love your website. It contains a lot of useful information. I am clueless when it comes to these things and when this thread started and someone posted the link to your website, I was excited to find one that explained things in terms I could understand! LOL! Thanks!
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2010, 11:31
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Default Re: Pattern copyright laws, just FYI

Quote:
Originally Posted by tabberone View Post
unbrokendreamz - making bottle cap images using the computer is often infringing especially if one is copying an image to make the bottle cap. If you are using the computer to create a design of your own that is fine. However, images on the internet are not there for the taking. If you have purchased some copyrighted material and you consume that material in the making of the bottle caps then that is not infringing.

One court ruled that a copyrighted item consumed in the construction of other items has no economic significance and is not infringing.

weesewcute - I have copies of several settlements on my web site including the Disney settlement.

yocelita - you are correct about not being able to use images like Winnie The Pooh. When someone says their item was "inspired by" something or someone, you can bet it is infringing. A t-shirt that says "I Love Jonas" will likely be considered infringing because of the name recognition.

rachie2531 - most lawyers do not understand trademark and copyright law. They study it in law school for a few classes but if they do not go into that field they fail to understand the wording and case histories.

Help? What are "tuts"?
So I know you are not a lawyer so when I ask this I only ask as an opinion, and since you are waaaaay more wise in this subject I wanted to see what you have to say
So if I bought images that are copyrighted from someone that obviously doesn't own a copyright privilege to sell them (they are the ones who went on the Internet and put together an image package). Then they would be infringing...what about the person who bought the images to make products using those images?
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:40
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Default Re: Pattern copyright laws, just FYI

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Originally Posted by yocelita View Post
So I know you are not a lawyer so when I ask this I only ask as an opinion, and since you are waaaaay more wise in this subject I wanted to see what you have to say
So if I bought images that are copyrighted from someone that obviously doesn't own a copyright privilege to sell them (they are the ones who went on the Internet and put together an image package). Then they would be infringing...what about the person who bought the images to make products using those images?
Like the flu, copyright infringement can be passed from one person to another. If the image is infringing then the use of the image is infringing. Copyright law grants certain so-called "exclusive rights" which are better called "marketing rights". One of these rights is reproduction and another is display (there are more than two rights). Even if you buy the image for personal non-commercial use only, putting the image on a t-shirt to wear to the mall would violate the "display" right and would be infringing. In this day of the internet day these marketing rights have the potential to be to be devastating to unsuspecting buyers.

In this case buying protection revolves around knowing your source. Generally a reputable source will state licenses and/or their own copyrights. Ironically, many designers do not try to register their designs because they are under the false impression that they have copyright protection once their design is created. That part of US Copyright Law has created an urban myth about copyrights. Upon creation, the expression of an idea has copyright protection but the artist cannot get any of these "protections" until AFTER the expression of the idea has been REGISTERED. Many people falsely believe they can sue and get damages if someone else uses their design. It is far more complicated than that.
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