thank you michelle for your help. i love those bows. once i get the regular bows down i may try to do the two tone bow. are they harder to make? i think the loopy layered bows are too "bushy" lol for my daughter who is four. they just take over her whole head! maybe i will try a loopy bow but not add the base bow...do u think that would work? i love this site and thank you for all the helpful information that you have to offer newbies like me.